Cindy Dubois (Moderator)

Gentlemen, thank you for being with us. As requested by you, we will feed this debate with questions from the audience. But before, first, let me start with a very short question. Secretary General, NATO's deterrence now depends as much on industrial capacity as on military capacity. This room brings together leaders from across the world, from defence industrial companies. What are the key messages that you would like to give them and that you would like to share with them today?

NATO Secretary General Mark Rutte

Thank you so much for hosting and for organising this and before I answer the question, let me just say that I'm proud of what Belgium is doing under the leadership of Bart De Wever and Theo Francken. Indeed, 'Belgium is back' - in the money spent reaching the 2% last year, and now working on a credible path to the 3.5. This event shows that the defence industrial base in Belgium is strong, and that it is growing. And I think that's extremely important. We have seen a shadow fleet ship now, I think two weeks ago, Theo, when you basically made sure that that the ship was captured and brought to the port of Antwerp, Zeebrugge, it's there. And I think that was an extremely important thing, because the French started this debate: 'how, as Europe, can we do more when it comes to the shadow fleets,' which is such an important source of income. And then Belgium really following that, and now taking that leadership role is important. So yes, Belgium is back, taking a leadership role, and I think that's extremely important.

To your question, what we need for the defence industry: please be ready. That means we need you to invest in your supply chain. Invest in extra shifts. Invest in extra factories. The demand is there. Tens, hundreds of billions of euros and dollars coming in extra, started basically last year, and that will ramp up over the coming years. So, for you as free market enterprises, there is a huge opportunity. So be ready.

Secondly, work faster, because we need your output. You see how quickly we can go through our stockpiles. Look at the Middle East, look at Ukraine, and we have to replenish. We have to replenish with the latest innovation, the latest technologies, at speed.

And three, work together. I'm really impressed also in this event, to see so many companies working in Belgium, but also from Belgium, with companies all over Europe, with the United States, big US companies investing in Belgium, in Europe. And I think it shows you that a transatlantic industrial base really underpins the Alliance, and it is an integral part. You are an integral part of our deterrence and defence. Money is one thing. The men and women in uniform are crucial, but without the equipment, they cannot fight. And our adversaries know that, so they need to know that we have a strong defence industrial base. So, thank you for what you are doing. Again, be ready, speed up when it comes to the base, and work together.

Question

How does strategic autonomy link into a growing dependency on other powers such as the US, for example?

NATO Secretary General Mark Rutte

I think it is about interdependency. We all need each other. Look at the American President Trump. He was hosting the five big US companies last Friday, and they agreed to quadruple their production because he is really driving in the US that defence industrial base. But all these companies, and some of them are here, like Lockheed Martin, RTX, these companies working cross-Atlantic. We have in Türkiye, about 3000 defence industrial companies who work across Europe and with the United States.

We have Belgium. And Belgium has the convening power like this meeting, this huge event, BEDEX. But also, when it comes to its defence industrial base and its innovative power. So, it's all transatlantic. So, I think we have to be conscious of the fact, yes, when you invest in defence, it is important that it also returns to your own economy. And I totally understand what Theo is driving there, when he spends more, hey, he wants an impact on his own economy. That's only fair. But at the same time, let's not forget to keep 1 billion people safe, Putin and others have to know we have the men and women in uniform. We have the money, but we also have you, with the defence industrial output, which surpasses what the Russians and others can produce. And that's crucial.

So, I think we all need each other. And there is so much money floating around. There is enough for the US, enough for Europe, for Canada, working together, leverage each other, including having companies like Thales investing in the US, companies like RTX and Lockheed Martin being active in Europe and so many other. These are only three examples, but there are tens, hundreds of those examples, how we work together. So, thinking we can look at the US industrial base separate from the European I think, is old school. We really have to do it together, interdependency, speed and be ready.

Question

Hi, thank you very much. I'm a journalist with Ukrainian telegraph. I have a question that I'm really, really happy to see Ukrainian producers of weapons during this exhibition and conference. So, we see that Ukraine is playing more crucial role now, and even Ukrainian specialists are going to Middle East on the US request to help to counter drones. So, my question is about Ukraine's role in the overall transatlantic security architecture. How do you see it? Thank you.

NATO Secretary General Mark Rutte

It is vital. Look indeed, because of this totally unprovoked war of aggression of Russia against your country, you had to defend yourself, and you are defending yourself. And I commend you for that, my respect. But you also had to innovate, and you are now one of the countries with the most knowledge and experience when it comes to drone technology, anti-drone technology, but also so much more. Every day, I get reports of what you guys are doing in terms of innovation and what is now happening in the Middle East. The fact that President Zelenskyy said: I will send Ukrainian teams to the Middle East, to Gulf countries to help them when it comes to drone technology and anti-drone technology, I think is testimony of that.

And what we're also seeing is that European countries are investing in the defence industrial base in Ukraine. There is still an untapped potential of 10 to 15 billion so a lot is being done. But still, there is room for more. And of course, what you are doing fighting the Russians and keeping your country safe means, indeed, that you are on the forefront of innovation. So, thank you for doing everything you're doing, and we have to make sure you stay strong in the fight. That means when it comes to interceptors for Russian missiles, when it comes to our key and crucial defence industrial gear, we have to support you and the US plays a big role here, paid for by Canadians and Europeans, and we have also to keep that going.

Question

Thank you, I'm sorry for following up. My name is Milana Holovan. I'm a Ukrainian journalist for LIGA.net. Is NATO ready to use JATEC initiative, for instance, not to use Ukrainian battlefield experience, but for instance, to buy Ukrainian software if we talk about interceptors? Thank you.

NATO Secretary General Mark Rutte

Well, of course, I cannot go into all the detail in an open session like this. But I can assure you, we have in Poland a centre, JATEC, where we capture all the lessons from the war. This is a Ukrainian-NATO organisation, so Ukraine and NATO organising that collectively in Poland - the Joint Analysis Training and Education Centre, where we capture all the lessons from the war, to be able to basically figure that in our own defence plans, and learning from Ukraine. And that means including, when it comes to innovation, the latest technologies, etc. So, I cannot get into specific technologies, but more general, you can be assured we take all the lessons.

And then to the point Theo was making about the Europeans, I'm proud of what Europe is doing. Take a country like Germany, it will spend in 2029, twice as much on defence as it was spending in 2021. They will spend 153 billion euros in 2029, the same as the French and the Brits combined. But also, the French and the Brits are spending more. Belgium is spending more. The Dutch are spending more. We are all spending more. We are really ramping up defence spending. And what I predict, that you have this again next year and the year after, and the year after, you will see a NATO which is more and more European-led. And I think that's exactly what the Americans want. They want to stay involved, both conventional and nuclear, but they also want NATO to be more and more European-led. And that's exactly what is happening. But therefore, we need spending and we need you. We need the defence industrial production.