Remarks by the NATO Secretary at the Davos Ukraine Discussion

Moderator, Fareed Zakaria

As you can see, we have a galaxy of heads of government here. But I thought I would begin with the one gentleman who is not a head of government at the stage, who is Mark Rutte, the Secretary General of NATO. Mark, first thank you for being here. I know you have been busy for the last 24 hours, saving the Western Alliance, for which we all thank you. You're almost getting as much applause as the Ukrainian soldiers. I guess the question would be, if I may, do you feel after these last few days that the crisis has been resolved over Greenland and that Greenland will remain a sovereign territory of Denmark? And, does all of this give you a sense that the United States - under current administration - is truly committed to the support of Ukraine and to the independence and sovereignty of Ukraine?

NATO Secretary General Mark Rutte

Yes. But, let me say, on Ukraine - absolutely, answer is yes, and I've never doubted this. President Trump is the one who broke the deadlock with Putin, started to negotiate, which was crucial, because he was the only one who was able to do that from his position, when he came to office in January. And he is pushing with Steve Witkoff, with Jared Kushner, with Marco Rubio, endlessly, of course, with help from many Europeans and others in power - I see here and so many others in this room - working day in, day out, to get the Ukraine issue solved, to get the war brought to an end, a sustainable end - where Russia will never, ever try to attack again.

And when it comes to the Arctic, President Trump, in his first term, already said we should spend more time and more energy on the Arctic and to defend the Arctic against the Russians and the Chinese, because the sea lanes are opening up. Greenland, yes, not only Greenland, it is the whole Arctic. Seven nations in NATO, one outside NATO - Russia - and these seven have to defend themselves against Russia and China. And what we discussed yesterday, it was a very good discussion is, how can we do that? One, how can - collectively - the NATO Allies help here?

The seven in the High North, and also others to support that, but the seven in the High North, including the United States, because also the United States is an Arctic country, because of Alaska, and, of course, Canada, Iceland, Denmark, Sweden, Finland and Norway. How can we make sure that these countries collectively, make sure that the Arctic stays safe, that the Russians and the Chinese stay out? And then when it comes to - so that's one work stream coming out of yesterday - and the other is to make sure when it comes to Greenland particularly, that we ensure that the Chinese and the Russians will not gain access to the Greenland economy, to militarily to Greenland.

And that will be a discussion taken forward based on what already happened last Wednesday, when Marco Rubio and Vice President Vance had their discussions with the Danish delegation to take that work forward, to make sure that that can never happen, that the Russians and the Chinese gain access to the Greenland economy, or in a military sense. But of course, all of this is not about Greenland or the Arctic. First of all, this is about how can we protect ourselves against our adversaries? Our main adversary is Russia, for NATO, and of course, we see China massively building up.

So, let's not be naive about China, but Russia is our main adversary, and these incredibly courageous Ukrainian soldiers, the Ukrainian military, the Ukrainian population, are defending their country against Russia. And what I would hope today we will discuss how we can help them. They need interceptors, they need our military support going forward, I know we have these peace talks going on, great - hopefully they will conclude soon. Yes, I know the European Union freed up 90 billion, fantastic, but we know that will only be concluded somewhere in April, May.

And today, Kyiv, Kharkiv, Lviv, but also so many smaller cities in Ukraine are being, are being hit by Russian missiles, by Russian drones. We know that water supply is down. We know that electricity is down. It is minus 20 degrees in Kyiv as we speak. So what we need is to keep our eyes on the ball of Ukraine. Let's not drop that ball, and that means, yes, great the peace talks - fantastic - we will do everything to conclude them successfully, but it will not happen tomorrow. And they need these interceptors, this military support tomorrow. So we have to stay concentrated.

So to my European and Canadian friends, we have to do that, and the US is willing to supply as much military stuff Ukraine needs, particularly these interceptors - paid for by Europeans and Canadians. We have to keep going that flow, making sure that is still there and that we don't lose sight of this main subject, which is fighting the Russians. The Ukrainians are doing it, they need our support. It's also about our collective security, that's what is at stake here.

Co-Moderator, Zanny Minton Beddoes

Let me now turn to a man who will give us a provocative and broader historical perspective. I don't think I even need to say his name but Professor Niall Ferguson, what is your take on this and what are we missing in this conversation this morning?

Question

Thank you, Zany. I can't match Senator Tillis for rhetorical passion, though I admire the sentiments he just expressed. But I can't help but point out how strange this week has been. This Davos was built as the spirit of dialogue. The dialogue that I've been reminded of is the Melian dialogue in Thucydides' History of the Peloponnesian Wars, which you all are familiar with, I'm sure. The key passage is the line in which the Athenians tell the Melians, 'the strong do what they wish, the weak do what they must.'

And that's been in some ways, the nature of the surreal conversation that has gone on for most of this week, consuming most of our time about Greenland. Passionate speeches about international law, which might have come from the mouths of the Melians. And then realist responses, which certainly recall the Athenians.

There are a number of European leaders here who I want to ask a question. When all the fine speeches have been made about support for Ukraine, I would love to understand why the pace of European rearmament is still so slow. Because it's one thing to commit to increase your defence spending to 3% or even 5% of GDP. It's another to actually do something, to procure the weapons, to modernize the defence forces of Europe.

Let me take the example of Denmark. Denmark has very nobly delivered a very large proportion of its arms to Ukraine. I think my friend Moritz Schularick's Kiel Institute has shown that it's probably delivered one of the largest percentages of its own arms to Ukraine, which is noble. But it's rather Melian, if you don't then replace those weapons with new ones and modern ones that meaningfully contribute to Europe's defence capabilities. You are so right, [Major Yurii Filatov] Ukraine has become the defence force of the European Union.

But where are the defence forces of the real European Union member states. It's unfortunate there are no German representatives here, because that's the key issue that nobody has yet touched on. Why is it that despite the fiscal commitments that have been made by the German government, which are of course an enormously important step, the pace of German rearmament is so painfully slow. Eric Schmidt is one of those people who's making a huge effort to scale Ukrainian drone production.

Think what a difference it would make if Germany today announced Operation Warp Speed for German rearmament, huge new gigafactories to scale the technology that the Ukrainians have pioneered, so that not just three or four million drones can be produced, but 10, 15 million drones.

Nothing will change Putin's calculus more decisively than a meaningful increase in the pace of European rearmament. Speeches at Davos aren't going to do it folks, no matter how passionate they are. But real and meaningful German rearmament, and I'll say also European rearmament, that's another matter.

So, I would urge my European friends, be a little less Melian and a bit more Athenian. And let's send a signal that no Russian dictator will ever, ever be able to misunderstand. Because of your actions, President Putin, you have required, necessitated something that the Germans hoped they would not have to do. And that is a very rapid rearmament, which I hope will lead a general European rearmament. If any of my European friends would like to comment on this, I would very much like to hear what they are doing to bring about Operation Warp Speed and a meaningful European military response to the Russian threat. Thanks very much.

Co-Moderator, Zanny Minton Beddoes,

Thank you, Niall. Your European friends are indeed itching to comment on this. Mark Rutte is practically jumping out of his chair. Mark, the floor is yours.

NATO Secretary General Mark Rutte

No, but thanks for the chance. Of course, I speak for NATO. And NATO is 50% US, and the other 50% are the other 31 Allies. But amongst them, of course, outside next to Canada, we have 30 Allies in Europe. I agree with your speech, when it would be about weapons delivered to Ukraine. I agree what you said about Denmark and that they have delivered huge amounts of weapons to Ukraine and many other countries also did. But it's not sustainable in the way it's going on now, because too many countries are not doing enough. There, I would agree with your speech.

I do not agree with your speech when it comes to the rearmament of Europe, and particularly not Germany. And I'm going to defend them. Germany spent in 2021, 70 billion of their annual budget on defence. By 2029, that will have risen to 160 billion. I opened a factory in Unterlüss in Germany, which is a factory providing with ammunition, 155 calibre. They have built that factory from nothing - there were sheep grazing there - to having that factory fully automated, open in 14 months. Normally, it would take you 10 years to only get the paperwork in order. Now in 14 months, from nothing to a full factory, this is what Germany is doing at the moment. They will massively grow their armed forces. And this is not only Germany. There's many countries…

So I agree with you when it comes to support for Ukraine. It has to be more spread. It cannot only be dependent on Norway, the Netherlands, Canada, Denmark, Germany, and a couple of other countries. There, we need to have the burden sharing. But when it comes to the re-armament, I think what you said is right, we have to do it. But it is happening, and that's the good news.