Secretary of State Marco Rubio and U.S. Ambassador to India Sergio Gor with Raj Chengappa of India Today

QUESTION: Hello, I'm Raj Chengappa of India Today, and joining me for this very special conversation with this historic backdrop of the Gateway of India in Mumbai, are two of the most influential figures in India-U.S. relations: Secretary of State - U.S. Secretary of State Marco Rubio and U.S. Ambassador to India Sergio Gor. Thank you for joining us at India Today.

And Ambassador, how would you rate India-U.S. relations? If I give you a scale of one to 10, and 10 being the perfect partnership, how much would you put to that, and why?

SECRETARY RUBIO: Well, I don't put a number on it. I wouldn't put a number on it. It's a very important relationship, obviously; it's two big, important countries. We've worked together for a very long time. We have a lot of common interests and we have a lot of - we have a history of working together. And I think India is progressing so fast on so many areas that are important to the national security and national interest of the United States. It's a logical partnership.

So, I don't know about one to 10. I would say it's - I think it's as strong as it's ever been, and I think in five years we'll look back and say it's one of the strongest relationships in the world.

QUESTION: And two or three things that you think right now you are going to focus on?

SECRETARY RUBIO: Well, we'd like to get this trade agreement done, because I think that provides stability and certainty for everyone. And then beyond that, I think there's so many areas we can work on - on energy and certainly on technology like artificial intelligence and things of this nature, telecommunications. There's so much we can work on - biomedical, pharmaceuticals. I mean, you name it. I could go on for an hour.

QUESTION: All right. Yes.

AMBASSADOR GOR: And Raj, I'll add to that that pick any sector, and today, the United States and India are working at it closer, at a higher level, and more engaged - whether that's pharma, that's military exercises. India has more military exercises with the United States than anyone else. So, any sector - IT, of course, sales, our bilateral trade - any sector, we're working at it in a much higher level than ever before.

QUESTION: Well, it's a bit humid. I think let's go inside and pursue this and get in depth, in the weeds of these questions.

SECRETARY RUBIO: All right.

AMBASASDOR GOR: Absolutely. Thank you.

QUESTION: Come, come. This is the historic Taj Mahal.

(Break.)

QUESTION: Secretary, continuing our conversation that we had, President Trump had said that India and the U.S. are pretty close to signing an agreement, and it will be different. What I'd like to know: Is Washington willing to give India the competitive tariff advantage it is seeking for this interim trade agreement?

SECRETARY RUBIO: Well, I'm not going to get into the specifics of any agreement until they're done, because there's still a number of items being negotiated, although very few. So, we're very close, and I anticipate - I can't - I can't foresee anything that would keep us from reaching an agreement. But there's still some items that are being discussed. So, I'd prefer not to go into the details of it until it's all fully worked out.

Suffice it to say that once this deal is done, it has to be one that's beneficial to both countries. And that's what I anticipate it will be.

QUESTION: I think the concern is that India expects continuity rather than unpredictability, and there is a Super 301 provision hovering around. So, could we expect that there will be continuity and not continuously have to revise our tariffs?

SECRETARY RUBIO: Well, that's the point. The point of having an agreement is to be able to have certainty so that people know they can invest, people know what the rules are that are going to govern trade and commerce between the two countries. That's the very purpose of having a deal. And so that's what we're working towards, and I feel very optimistic that we're going to get to a very good place very soon.

QUESTION: Excellent. And Ambassador Gor, turning to you, when it comes to the investment relationship, where do you see the next big wave of American investment coming into India? In which sectors do you think that will -

AMBASSADOR GOR: Look, our bilateral trade is at an all-time high. Our bilateral trade, 15 years ago it used to be to 20 billion. Today it's $240 billion. And it goes both ways. You have incredible investment coming into the United States. The President recently hosted Essar in the Oval Office. They're opening incredible facilities, multibillion-dollar facilities in the United States that are creating jobs in local communities for Americans.

On the other hand, this is a win-win situation. We have American companies that have moved here, especially relating to IT. Now, when they move here, that complements a job back home also. This is not a one-way street. And so our goal is to keep increasing that bilateral trade and identify those win-win situations.

QUESTION: Okay. Moving to energy, Secretary Rubio, can you please elaborate on the national interest cited by President Trump for the U.S. to buy Russian diesel, and also a waiver of sanctions for India to buy Russian crude oil, when earlier we were actually penalized for doing this?

SECRETARY RUBIO: Well, a couple points. The first is right now, you're looking at global economy - all foreign policy has to be balanced. Listen, you can't just look at everything through the lens of one country or one conflict. And right now, while we remain very concerned and we're doing all we can to bring an end to the war between Russia and Ukraine, we also recognize the impact that that war is having on the global economy, in addition to what we've seen in the Straits of Hormuz and now increasingly the Red Sea. And so, I think the President made a very wise decision, which is to, for some short period of time, allow there to be additional energy flows into the global marketplace, not just to benefit us - obviously it helps the United States - but also diesel prices are high all over the world.

In the case of India, look, India has made real progress in diversifying its portfolio of energy. And it's done so not because of threats or anything of that nature. It's in India's interest to diversify its portfolio, where it gets energy from. You never want to be overly dependent on one country versus another. So, it was already on that trajectory to begin with. So, it's not so much about buying less Russian oil than it is about buying more U.S. crude or Venezuelan or others from the Western Hemisphere. I think that's in India's interests, and obviously we want to help facilitate it. And more importantly, India's real capability is the capability to ramp up refining, which crude oil is great, but you need to refine it in order for it to be a usable product. And I think India has the capacity and the capability not just to refine more, but to, in very short order, have the kinds of investments that will allow it to expand its refining capability even further.

QUESTION: And that's why you went to Jamnagar, and was it to enhance energy cooperation between India and the U.S.?

SECRETARY RUBIO: Well, we already have energy cooperation. It's more importantly to go see the facility and see how they're operating and understand a little bit more about how it works. It's a very impressive facility. But it also happens to be a company that has an investment in the United States, in Brownsville, that is hopefully going to be online by 2029. So, it was a good opportunity to interact with a company that's investing in expanding refining capability in the United States at the same time as a facility that I think can play a role in helping refine more crude from the Western Hemisphere and thereby allowing the world to diversify away from the Middle East.

QUESTION: I want to continue with this question of energy.

AMBASSADOR GOR: Yes.

QUESTION: And if you look at India recently opening up its civil nuclear sector for private investment, particularly in the small modular reactors that we're talking about, do you see now finally a breakthrough moment for American investment in technology in India?

AMBASSADOR GOR: We've had incredible momentum on that. And as you know, things take time. But to the government's credit here, to Prime Minister Modi's credit, the SHANTI bill passed, which enables SMRs and private technology and this new equipment to be able to come to India. And so there has been some regulation challenges. Nothing gets done overnight. These are very complex issues, and they'll set up the relationship for decades to come, right? But India is one of the first places that the United States is looking at possibly to have our first SMRs internationally. And so we're on an incredible path there. We've had meetings in Washington. We've had meetings on this in Delhi. We've had some meetings right here in Mumbai, because the regulatory agency for India is based here on that.

So, it is moving in the right direction and I do think we'll get there on that soon also.

QUESTION: Secretary, switching subjects, we are sitting inside the Taj Mahal Palace Hotel, which was, if you recall, the center of the horrific 26/11 terrorist attacks in India in 2008, and in fact you paid tribute to the victims of that. What is America doing to assure India that its current closer ties with Pakistan will not come at the expense of India's fight against terrorism?

SECRETARY RUBIO: Well, first of all, the United States has to have a relationship with as many countries in the world as possible because we have a global presence and a global interest in anything that's going on. So, our relationship with Pakistan is not new. And I think it's just developed in a way that allows us to have hopefully more influence over the decisions they make on a variety of topics.

In no way does the relationship with Pakistan come at the expense of our relationship with India. We share the same concerns India does about terrorism. We are not - we have been victims of terrorism, as India has been. And we continue to - in fact, no country in the world does more to go after terrorism in the United States - than the United States. It was the United States under President Trump that destroyed ISIS, or Daesh, in the Middle East. It's the United States that eroded al-Qaida. It's the United States that went in and eliminated bin Laden. It's the United States that's gone in now and unfortunately has had to go into parts of Africa and take on these elements as well.

So, I don't think any country in the world has shown a greater commitment to go after the terrorism - terrorism, global terrorism - than the United States has done, and that includes many of the same sort of ideologies that also threaten India.

QUESTION: And if you recall, last year you played quite a diplomatic role at Operation Sindoor after the terror attack in Pahalgam on that crucial day, on May 10th, I think, 2025, when you spoke directly to the leadership on both sides. Could you take us behind the scenes of that particular thing? And what, how did the conversation -

SECRETARY RUBIO: Well, I won't take you behind the scenes because then no one will ever talk to me again in the future. (Laughter.) But no, so I can't do that. But I can just tell you, look, anytime we see a flashpoint between countries that could lead to a broader conflict and a war, if we can play a constructive role, we'll try to. And I think it's a good example of our ability to speak to multiple parties and use - in the case of India a long pre-existing relationship, in the case of Pakistan one that I think has improved over the last few years - to just ensure that there isn't flashpoints that could lead to something broader and more difficult.

Look, the tensions that exist between the two countries are well understood. I don't need to sort of explain that to you or your audience. But I can say to you with confidence that I think the United States is prepared to play a constructive role, because we'd prefer not to see war. We'd prefer to see the opportunity to partner in business and commerce and do things that provide prosperity and security for the people of India, but also the people of the United States.

QUESTION: Right. There have always been differing perceptions that we've seen as to how the ceasefire and - but, Ambassador Gor, I'd like to ask you about the defense partnerships. And how far is Washington prepared to go for joint production, technology transfer, and, of course, developing advanced weapon systems?

AMBASSADOR GOR: Well, look, I mean, that has existed already in India and it continues to exist. And I think it's important for your viewers to understand Lockheed is here, Boeing is here; co-production is happening. So, jobs in the United States and jobs in India are progressing hand in hand on these production systems.

Our defense cooperation is at an all-time high. I would say, I mean, you go just by the numbers and it is unmatched. In the last month alone, we had 500 U.S. Army soldiers here training at Yudh Abhyas. We had Tarang Shakti, the first time ever F-35s have been in India and participated in a joint exercise with Indians. Our F-35s don't go to any nation. They go to nations we trust. They go to partners we trust. India is a very valuable partner to us in the Quad. The Secretary has had multiple meetings at his level - including, by the way, next week another one. So next week at the G20 in Atlanta, Dr. Jaishankar will be there, the Australians will be there, the Japanese will be there. We're also working towards a meeting between the leaders, including President Trump and Prime Minister Modi, in the next month.

So, there's a lot happening in the Quad. Defense goes hand in hand with the United States, and India is a valued partner in that. So, there's a lot happening on that front.

QUESTION: I'm glad you mentioned the Quad, because how do you see, Secretary, the Quad evolving, particularly in the face of China's growing assertiveness? And what more can India and the United States do together to secure critical supply chains and reduce their dependence on China?

SECRETARY RUBIO: Well, just on the Quad point, it's a relationship and it's a construct that we've - it's actually the first meeting I ever did as Secretary of State.

QUESTION: That's right.

SECRETARY RUBIO: It was a Quad meeting. I think we've had more Quad meetings in the last year and a half than probably the first - the previous four years combined, at the foreign ministry level. And I understand that, and we're going to have a leader-level meeting now very shortly, probably in December at some point, and we'll try to arrange even more before the end of President Trump's term. He still has two and a half years left.

So, this is a very important relationship, but I think it's important not just because we have four countries that are coordinating with one another. We're beginning to see outcomes. We're beginning to see results. As an example, maritime awareness - the ability to know what's happening under the water, threatening cables and so forth. This is something that the Quad is working together on, and real things are happening.

I think the same is true - I think it's an area of cooperation that we can have when it comes to supply chains writ large. The one thing I think is a consistent theme across the world, but certainly in the U.S.-India relationship, is we do not want to be overly dependent on any country in the world. I'm not singling out China. I'm saying any country in the world. We don't want to depend on any single country in the world for 90 percent of anything that's critical to our economies. And we have to have the domestic capacity to do certain things for ourselves. I think that's an interest India has. That's certainly an interest the United States has under President Trump. And I think that's something we can work together on. And that is, what are those - where can we create domestic capabilities in a mutually beneficial way for both countries on various key sectors, be it artificial intelligence or technology or biomedicine or pharmaceuticals? I mean, the list goes on and on - critical minerals, obviously everybody talks about those.

QUESTION: And that's why I want to come to you, Ambassador. You've been instrumental in - for India joining the Pax Silica; I think as soon as you took over, we joined that. Can India expect major American investments and technology partnerships that would help India become a key hub in terms of these strategic supply chains?

AMBASSADOR GOR: Well, I think it's a great partnership. India was one of the first 10 countries that the United States invited to join Pax Silica. It's because we trust India. They're a valued partner in the supply chain. It is the reason that the Secretary was here twice in one year. I am determined to bring the highest levels of our government here so they can talk to the highest levels of your government here and identify those opportunities.

As you know, in three weeks we have the Attorney General coming here to work with the folks in Delhi. We're going to have a counternarcotics conference in Delhi. We're bringing our DEA Administrator. We're bringing U.S. Attorneys. We'll bringing all sorts of individuals at the highest level. To me it is important to have the highest levels of our government engaged with individuals here in India.

QUESTION: Shifting gears a bit, Secretary Rubio, you had talked of America being in the process of being that - in being - stabilizing itself, right? And in that context, shouldn't it be welcoming highly skilled Indian professionals, as in the past, rather than hiking the prices for their work visas and also for Indian students coming to the U.S.?

SECRETARY RUBIO: Well, but that's - no, but that's a change in our immigration laws and it's not one that's built on India. It's not one that's focused on India. It happens to impact Indians that want to come to the United States and work, and there are businesses who are trying to bring in, but it's not geared towards India. It is global. In fact, there is no meeting in the world that I do that doesn't - they don't raise some visa issue.

The United States has had a broken immigration system. We've had a system in which - maybe not in this program but in others we had 20 million people unlawfully enter the country across our border. We've had business-related immigration programs that in many cases have been rampant for fraud and abuse and have been misused in ways that have not made sense. We have tensions in our own society. I mean, what country in the world's people would not react if they see that some of the best jobs in the country are being taken from people that are coming from abroad?

So, these things have to be addressed, and we're trying to address them, but they're not aimed at India. They apply to any country, all - every country in the world. That's true on trade. That's true on immigration. I know that for countries that are perhaps disproportionately impacted by a policy change in the United States it may feel like it's being targeted, but it's not. It's we're going to get it right and we're going to have a system that works for our economy and for the American people.

In the end, I will say this: I expect that the Government of India will always put the people of India first and that you will always put the national interest of India first. But I also hope everyone understands the United States under President Trump is going to put our people first, our workers first, and our country first. And where I think friends can work together is when there are differences on this, our existing - our common interests, our longstanding relationship, and our shared values will allow us to work through some of those differences to reach outcomes that are positive for both countries.

QUESTION: Would you like to add anything?

AMBASSADOR GOR: No, I mean, look, the Secretary is 100 percent right. It's - when we talk about America First, it doesn't mean America alone. And to the Secretary's point, all these items that have changed that have impacted India, it's not just India. It's the whole world. The United States needed to take a look. For too long we had open borders. For too long people were coming into the United States and taking advantage of us. We had leaders on both sides of the political aisle that did not look out for the American people. That changed under President Trump. That doesn't mean it's targeting any individual country. We needed a reset. The prime minister has been very clear here: India first. There's nothing wrong with that. He should be looking out for his own country. But people shouldn't be surprised that our leadership is looking out for ours.

QUESTION: Secretary Rubio, turning to geopolitics, President Putin said yesterday that Russia was willing for a tripartite meeting with the U.S. and Ukraine over ending the war. What do you see as a realistic path to ending the Russia-Ukraine conflict?

SECRETARY RUBIO: Well, it's a very difficult conflict, and I know the President has dedicated a tremendous amount of time to it. We have people that do nothing all day but work on trying to find a way to make a difference and bridge those differences. I would just say to you that that war - people keep talking about it's a war in Ukraine. That war is about Donbas. It's about one region of the country. It's - at its core, it's about 11 percent of one part of that country that Russia wants and cannot take militarily and that Ukraine is unwilling to give up. And they have good reasons why they don't want to do that - for sovereignty and their own security long term.

And so the question is whether there's some accommodation, that both sides will have to make some concessions in order to bring an end to the war. This war is not going to be solved militarily. This war is only going to end diplomatically. And the question is: Can you arrive at an outcome in which both sides receive something of benefit but also give concessions and bring this to an end?

So, it's been difficult, but I can tell you this: As hard as it is, it is impossible to do unless both sides are at the table talking, and we're happy to play the mediating role in that regard. So that's really what we're trying to do - not claiming that just getting them in the room is going to solve this problem, but we have no chance to solve it if we can't get them in the room.

QUESTION: And finally, winding up, Ambassador Gor, you've worked very closely with President Trump. What's the secret of working successfully with the President?

AMBASSADOR GOR: I mean, look, the President is an incredible individual. I have known the President for many years. He is very direct. He expects results. And so the President is results-driven in a similar way, by the way, that your prime minister is. He wants to move fast, and he wants to get things done. And so to me, that has been something that, frankly, I have admired about our President. Not every global leader is results-driven. A lot of people love having these press conferences and meetings after meetings after meetings. Our President wants results. He wants them done now.

QUESTION: And is the equation with Prime Minister Modi?

AMBASSADOR GOR: Look, I've talked about this quite often. They're dear friends. They're dear friends and it works well because of that, because they see eye-to-eye on moving the ball forward, on getting things done, on delivering, right? And so he holds the prime minister in the highest regard. They've known each other for many years. They'll continue to engage. They've had multiple phone calls in this month alone, right? And so a lot happens behind the scenes that people are not aware of, but the two leaders are constantly in contact.

QUESTION: And Secretary Rubio, what's your experience of working with your boss, President Trump?

SECRETARY RUBIO: Well, he's an historic figure. There's no doubt about it. I think he's provided for the presidency because of - he's not an orthodox political figure. He's not a politician at all. He's a man of business whose entire life has been based on making decisions on the basis of what makes sense.

But here's something else he doesn't get credit for. He's visionary. He imagines what people say is impossible. He thinks things that people say, oh, we can't do it because that's never been done before, and then he achieves it and then he does it, when you look at issue after issue what the President has pushed towards and has been able to achieve that people didn't think was possible because a traditional political figure would have never done it.

So, I think it's - for those of us who work for him and with him, it's - it gives us energy to know that we have the ability to do things that you would not be able to do under someone who came from a traditional political background. And I think in the case of foreign policy and in the world and in the realm of global affairs, it's a very exciting time to be doing it.

QUESTION: And any - yes.

AMBASSADOR GOR: Raj, I'll add to that. Remember this. In the future people will look back on these years, and our President will be one of the greatest but also historical figures who achieved a lot. We see it happening in real time now. In the future when people reflect on his four years, on these four years of the White House, you will see things that have been unmatched.

QUESTION: Now, speaking of a successor, Secretary Rubio, are you going to be in the presidential ballot in 2028? (Laughter.)

SECRETARY RUBIO: Oh, I'm going to give you the same answer I've given American media. I'm just not talking about that anymore. I've already given multiple statements in regards to that. You've only asked - this is the first time you've ever asked me because it's the first time I've ever done an interview with you, but I'm plenty focused. I have two jobs right now and they both take up all my time and energy, and I'm very happy doing those jobs.

QUESTION: All right. Secretary Rubio and Ambassador Gor, thank you very, very much for this interview today. Thank you.

SECRETARY RUBIO: Thank you.

AMBASSADOR GOR: Thank you, Raj.

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